ÐßÐßÊÓƵ

Transcript

Introduction to Atomize RMS
 
Hi everyone. This week in Matt Talks, I am actually in Gothenburg. So you don't see my normal background of like the green, but you get this turquoise with a beautiful Atomize sign. And I'm joined by Alexander, who's the CEO of Atomize, a company that we acquired in December of last year.
 
And I wanted to make sure that we talk through kind of what what is the solution? Why do we think that this match with Mew makes make sense? But first of all, Alexander, thank you. And thank you for joining me.
 
Thank you so much for having me, or actually, I'm happy to having you here in the Atomize office.
 
Like I see blue skies out of the window, a beautiful harbor. Is it like this every day?
 
Yeah, every day. Happens once a year. I guess it's when you arrive here.
 
Nice. That's the only reason I booked. So what's your story? Were you a revenue manager in a hotel before or you came from a completely different background?
 
No, when we started Atomize, we actually before Atomize, I was the CEO for a company that was operating in the ad tech industry.
 
And, where we did sort of revenue management for premium publishers.
 
And, our experience and our heritage from that was, well, when we sold that company in twenty fourteen, the experience we brought with us from that was the importance of doing things in real time and having that mathematical mindset when doing revenue management in general. And then we stumbled across the hospitality industry, which turned out to be quite a big industry where we, algorithm for doing revenue management, where, where, our mindset has always been sort of the mathematical part of it. So, no, I don't have a revenue management background as such from hotel, but it's more driven by data driven background, I would say, to do revenue management.
 
And the best businesses often start because they found a problem that they feel strongly that they should help solve. What was the problem you guys found when you came into hospitality?
 
The biggest reason why we got into this was that we stumbled across the fact that majority of hotels were doing revenue management manually. And it took a lot of time together with the fact that that manual piece was based on obsolete reports, numbers, stats, and so on that were not And we can see that still that a lot of hotels are doing too many hotels are taking decision, decisioning for their revenue management based on historical obsolete data. And that we want to change, right? So we want them to be work with what, what is the data is out there in real time to make optimal decisions.
 
So, so when you say manual, like, so, because, we have a lot of people that are owners of hotels or with channel managers, and they think that everyone is using algorithms nowadays or autonomous pricing, but actually the majority of hotels do not have an automated system. So what does a day of a revenue manager look like when they running this pen and paper or a calculator?
 
I'm quite amazed many times about hotels and meeting hoteliers that are not even changing the price at all. They have a static price throughout the year. Not that unusual, actually. That's an extreme though.
 
But then we have those that are having so many different places that need to go to fetch data, historical data that takes hours and hours, everything from historical bookings, from their PMS to, some are relying on just looking at competitive rates, and base their pricing decisions on that. And some are just having a gut feeling overall. But biggest problem, I would say is to, for them, is to gather these different sources if they are doing it that complicated type of mathematical calculation to gather all those data sources and try to make all of these data sources make sense for them for a real time decision, which is obviously impossible.
 
Right?
 
So I think, Roanoke managers in general, my take on it is that they spend too much time today. Still, too many spend too much time on pulling reports for these tactical decisions.
 
Yeah. I think the majority of time is actually getting data and then validating the data so that once a week you can go and actually try and make a few of these decisions. But once a week is probably seven days too late for any of these decisions to happen. And you might have already missed the pickup in demand or a drop in demand and therefore outpriced yourself for several days. And you'll never get that back because once a day loss is a day loss, right?
 
Exactly. And I think that too many hotels are also being too reactive. So they many times we see, since majority of hotels are acting on the books data, so that means that they're always behind the wave in one way or another, while we want to achieve the ability for hotels to be proactive rather than being reactive. So for that, you need to also take into account data that's not on the book simply. And that we do, I think, fairly well today.
 
Yeah.

Chapter
Revenue systems for different hotel sizes
 
So is a revenue management system like Atomize only for large hotels or for chain hotels? Or is it a system that could be used in any hotel? Or are there hotels that you like, it does make sense for you to have a revenue management system?
 
I think there are two limitations. We work in a wide range of hotels, resorts and apartment hotels and so on.
 
There are primarily two limitations, I would say, when it comes to our algorithmic approach.
 
One being the fact that we do things with machine learning and AI. That means that you need it requires the algorithm to have some kind of depth, in terms of the data depth, in terms of taking decision decisions and learn from that data. So simply saying that if you have two rooms in your property, maybe machine learning is not the best route down to solve that problem because we have so few data points to learn from. Right? That's the first one.
 
So what's, what's the minimum number of rooms you would say it makes sense?
 
Well, we have, everything from, twelve ten to twelve rooms up to north of one thousand rooms. But if you have it below ten rooms, it's starting to be you can still use Atomize, of course, but you don't have the same for natural reasons. You don't have the same data as a foundation for doing data driven decisioning. Yeah.
 
The other not limitation, but also for natural reasons is that maybe we don't, we can work with long stay or mid, mid stay, so to speak. But for long stay, have the limitation that, I mean, things one year lease for instance, for long stay. It's not that, it's not that dynamic. It doesn't happen. The competitive situation is not that fierce compared to, you know, a one stay night hotel. So for that reason, as more long stay you are, I would say the less value add we add to that in terms of dynamic pricing, you don't you don't need to be in real time for for one year lease, for instance.
 
So so basically you're saying if you're a hotel and you're over ten rooms, you should have a revenue management system. It makes sense because there is enough demand for you to warrant that there's an upside to getting a system like this?
 
One hundred percent. One hundred percent.
 
Nice. So if you think about the space that Atomize is in, which is revenue management, and you look at the whole hotel industry, do you have a sense of how many, what percentage of hotels today have a revenue management system?
 
I, when we started, or was it eight years ago with Atomize, we heard that ninety percent plus were not using some kind of support.
 
Yeah.
 
My feeling is that that is very much still the same. Maybe we are at, maybe we have reached twenty percent now that are using revenue management and eighty percent or not, but it's very slow still. I think there's a huge market and I think it's made me sad also a little bit because there are so many missing out on this. It's not an opportunity only, but it's actually that can save so much time being wasted in a way in the industry. So I hope now that we can all together as an industry make this, go up quicker than it has done in the last eight years, at least.

Chapter
Current RMS adoption in hotels
 
Yeah. Across Muse, we see it's So Muse, because we're cloud first, we are definitely getting more earlier adopters of hoteliers on the platform. And we see it's about fifty percent. But that still means that the other half of hotels that are on a cloud based platform where this integration works so incredibly well, They still do these things by hand, which is crazy, and our average size hotel is about sixty five to seventy rooms. So these are not small hotels that are doing this by hand, which is kinda crazy.
 
So I think that there's probably a few reasons why hotels don't have a revenue management system today. Do like, I'm assuming price is one of them. Is that an area that this field finds the most resistance?
 
I think that the main reason is that, they are not aware. A lot of hoteliers I talk to when they, for instance, when I show them, MuseRMS or Atomize it's like, so this truly do exist. There is a possibility for me to actually even use the software doing this. So, so that I get a lot.
 
Then there is also those that are a little bit like, wow, this is I didn't know this existed, but it's, it's really should I hand over all my everything that's stored for twenty five years in my Excel? Should I let this sort of someone else take control of my operations when it comes to pricing?
 
So that's sort of is also a, they need to take that leap of faith in a way to rely and trust the machine or the algorithms to take over. That's also one part of those that are a little bit hesitant to take the leap, I would say. Cost wise, I mean, I agree with you that sometimes I think hoteliers are exceptionally good at looking at keeping costs down in general for their operations. They are very cost conscious.
 
Unfortunately, when it comes to revenue management, since it's not about so much about cost, it's about an uplift as well. They need, I would wish, I'm trying to explain to them, the total sort of ROI of implementing RMS. It's not only the cost saving aspect, but the biggest part is actually the uplift. I mean, in such a context, if, for instance, if you're running a hotel that has one hundred thousand euros in turnover per month and we can add fifteen percent on top of that, I think, you know, two hundred euros or three hundred euros per month is nothing.
 
Yeah. In such a context, right?
 
It's a no brainer. But, to get that message over the line is sometimes difficult, I feel it anyways.
 
And I think it's partly because the buyer is often the revenue manager. And there's this fear of being displaced because suddenly there's a computer that can do your job. And I think it's actually shifting towards what the future of this role is. And it isn't just thinking about room revenue. And I just did a a Matt Talks about upselling, for example, and hotels think this is an afterthought. But actually, if you're really leveraging currently your room sales, then you create get time back that you can use to strategize rather than sit there on Excel sheets and trying to find data points. It's much more interesting once you've got the data and once you got the input from a smart system, what else could you do on top of it and really diversifying your services and strategizing.
 
So I don't think this is the end of what a traditional revenue manager was doing. I think there's an end to the traditional role, but that role can morph into how do we just generally make more revenue as a hotel.
 
One hundred percent agree. And I can also sense that when I the new generation of hoteliers coming up now, it sort of started surfacing and then they're opening up hotels and they're opening up. And maybe sometimes it's the first time they open up a hotel hotel. They how they are the younger generation. They expect this to be automated.
 
They, they, they on the other hand is like, why are you not doing this? Did I do this manually?
 
No way. I mean, in this day, they wage when, when things are so much data out there. So they expect it to be automated while those that have been in the industry, I mean, with full respect, they have built up a huge amount of experience and so on. They are tougher to convince to take that leap, I would say. Yeah. So depending on what kind of generation you we address as well.

Chapter
Expected revenue uplift from implementing RMS
 
So if I am a hotel and I've never had a revenue management system before, I was doing all of it by hand, what's the uplift? Like, because it's hard to, I guess, give an average, but do you have a sense of is that ten percent uplift in revenue per available room? Is it twenty? Is it thirty? Like what's an average?
 
It varies depending on in what kind of dynamic environment the hotel is located. I mean, if you're located on an island and the demand has been exactly the same for the last twenty five years and then we come in, it will not change the demand as such. We will do some uplift there, but but it's not the same as if you, in contrast, would be in a city centre environment in London or New York and so on. And where things are shifting, you need to adapt to that new environment.
 
The demands is shifting all the time. But in general, what we see is that someone that has not been using a RMS software, I used to tell them that, I mean, if we do, somewhere between ten and twenty percent is what you can expect. If we come in closer to ten, even I would be, be disappointed. If we come close to twenty, I will be starting to be happy.
 
But it happens that we do north of twenty percent as well.
 
I think regardless, ten to twenty percent is quite incredible. If you're starting to get what you do as a turnover for your hotel, ten percent is a lot of money.
 
If you're like our average hotels are just over, I think, a hundred euros in average rate. So you're looking at ten euros per room per night. If you're a fifty bedroom hotel, that's already five hundred euros which is just right there getting there every day.
 
Exactly. So it's, it's a no brainer. But I think in terms of, because everything that comes with this as well is automation in general.
 
So I don't think that the future will be about, you know, comes down to features and stuff like that. It will be, in order today is about those that have a mindset or understanding that automation is the way forward. Because that's so important. It doesn't come down to, if there's a button there that is red or green, or if it should be moved around, if specific features about So that's, I think our mission right now is to make hoteliers understand that automation is the answer to this. It's not about how big is the software among the many reports can you pull. Yeah. And so on.
 
I was surprised once I started really digging in at how simple it actually is. Like I didn't need extensive e learning courses to know it. I just needed to go through the different screens, like really understand what everything was doing. But it was pretty straightforward, right?
 
I think so. And I think it should be because, I mean, because by nature it's not automation. It's not about hitting buttons. It is about automation. And that has always been our ambition that you should be able algorithm needs to be so sophisticated that it learns by, by performance, by history, by, by the fact that things are changing and it needs to be that simple. And that's why we even launched Atomized CircaRun even a full hotel group, even on a mobile phone, because that's how simple it should be. And we do this for numerous of hotel groups.
 
So that's how simple it needs to be.
 
Because I saw these tooltips inside the product that were AI driven that explained kind of what the reasoning behind the pricing decision was. And, you know, you wouldn't ask an autonomous car why it's turned left or right to turn right. But I do think in our industry, people still want to have a some sense of understanding about some of the pricing decisions. But what drove that kind of tooltip that we built in with the AI?
 
I think in general, I think summaries in general, like an executive summary, just like you write up a very heavy executive report or some kind of, summary I was seeing last quarter and so on.
 
Some just like you, I guess, you get a lot of reports and that. Right? And and you don't have time to to spend time reading all graphs and so on. You need to get to the point straight away.
 
ChatGPT and generative AI was launched to the market. We felt that this is a great tool for this, that we can use in Anonymize to really summarize what we trying to explain. And for those that want to go deeper, we need to be able to support that text with graphs and so on. But in fifteen seconds, you need to understand, read up what is it all about?
 
And that's the phenomenal thing with AI, right? That it is one angle to it where it can add so tremendous amount of value, which which we have incorporated into Atomize.
 
I love that. Can you talk about a customer, specific customer? There's some customers that I'm very close to having deployed the system myself back in the days, but can you talk about a customer where Atomize was deployed, where they genuinely felt the impact of it, at their hotel?
 
There are so many stories and so many, both on terms of hotel groups, and also about small hotels as well. And, I think that the, the one that I, what I like to a great extent is, Lagula Hospitality Group, where we launched across forty six properties, Atomize and Muse, and they were live within thirty days across their portfolio. And they had many, many hours spent in the hotel group setting prices tactically and they were trying to keep up and but they didn't really. And the problem for them, for instance, was that was not consistent.
 
So as a brand, they were not consistent with pricing throughout their hotel group. That's also benefit, right? With implementing RMS, you become very consistent and the market can recognise and see it throughout your portfolio as well. And there we increased RGI by twenty percent in the first year and saved tremendous amount of time, for them.
 
So that's a big group, but then it goes all the way down to your smaller hotels. So we have the local house in Miami, ten room bedroom, eighteen bedroom hotel, small hotel, very nice.
 
Their challenge, however, was that they didn't have time to set prices to the frequency that they needed. So they, before using atomized, they set prices once a week. And that during that time, it took one and a half hour per week to set the prices, to gather all those reports and then they set prices, and then they waited for another week and then did it again. And so when we came in, completely changed the game, turned things upside down, doing things in real time, full automation. Not only did we save that one hour and a half per day, but we did an uplift of thirty seven percent, I think, in ADR.
 
They can really capture those demand peaks in in in Miami.
 
And, overall, it's been a, I mean, fabulous, I think, journey for them, where they can spend all that time or one and a half hour, extra on the guests, but also doing a lot of new investments into the hotel, making it even more competitive than they could have done without Atomize. So I think we have brought a lot of added value there as well. And there are all those stories across the globe, but those are the ones that come to mind right now.

Chapter
Real-time pricing strategies
 
You have an option to go real time and you also have an option to go less than real time, I'm assuming, or Yes.
 
So the default one is where you have three updates per day, which is the traditional say, update frequency if you look at generally across all our messages today. But then we early on in Atomize journey, we said like, we need to do things in real time. And I remember still when we mentioned this the first time and people in the industry said, yeah, it's a nice philosophy and they sort of keep it up. Great momentum in terms of what you want to build.
 
Then once we launched it two years later, I think no one really believed that we would ever release it. That we saw that immense impact it has to be able to capture things, not only, you know, going from three times per day to true real time, where you, there are nuances in the market that you need to adjust to for a certain room type for three and a half months out now. And sometimes it's a big events like Taylor swift effect, right? When, when that happens, you need to respond now, you cannot wait like four or five hours.
 
I remember I was on a holiday and we were in the queue to get Adele tickets.
 
So my husband was on the Adele Ticketmaster website whilst I was on the hotel website that we found the nicest hotel in Munich, which is also where Adele ended up staying.
 
Yeah. And because we were so fast, the moment we got tickets, I confirmed the bedroom and we tricked the system because the rooms, by the time we got there, were three times as expensive. So I knew how these revenue systems worked. I knew that this hotel did not have Atomize. I checked and we booked it and we made an incredible deal just because we were able to trick the system. But that is unfortunately what happens. Yeah.
 
Yeah. But it's, it's, it's, it's, we looked at, I mean, so really extreme scenario.
 
We also serve Formula One, with dynamic pricing for the ticket sales. So you can imagine when, when, when they go out for sale, it's, intense. And that's not a matter of doing, you know, hourly updates of rates. You have all the grandstands, different ticket types, when this needs to be transacted incredibly quick.
 
So there is an, but it's an extreme example where real time really shows its power and, and how a bit goes enormous amount of data power into doing that. So yeah, it's a premium product that we have, but I usually say I recommend our own our hotels to be on that, especially, I mean, Formula One is one thing, but when it comes in handy, especially is for actually for smaller properties, because I think that all small hotels have experienced the fact that they go to bed, go home from the hotel, fall asleep. And then let's say that I have twelve hotel rooms and they wake up and they are sold out when they come to the hotel in the morning, just because something happened during the evening when they have left the hotel or something.
 
But to be on automation and be able to respond to that in real time, it's can be a matter of, you know, can be a big, big difference for, for such a small hotel to be, doing things in real time or not really.
 
Yeah.
 
So I, and this might be polarizing, but like, let's, let's go with it. So I think that there's only two types of revenue manager. There's those that trust algorithms and there's those that do not trust algorithms. Is that a fair, is that a fair quote? Or would you say that's not really how the world works?
 
I think you are right. And then there are those that are a little bit interested.
 
They don't, haven't taken the leap. And for those, we needed to build also AtomFyze for those that have a certain, they don't trust them entirely.
 
So obviously you can deactivate autopilot where they get price recommendations.
 
That's usually what the case actually in the initial phase for Atmos clients. They want their price recommendations. They can see how, what do you recommend here and so on. And then they usually switch on autopilot later.
 
Are they do you like you find that they eventually will trust the algorithm to switch it on?
 
Always. I would say in the majority of cases, there are very few that are stuck sort of in the price recommendation mode. They are the ones that are a little bit hesitant to trust the algorithm. They look at it and they want to see, is it really, can it really do the work?
 
And they have sitting there next to the Excel spreadsheet comparing and and then they're yes, it's actually doing oh, here they even actually have a have a better suggestion that I have in my twenty five year old Excel spreadsheet. So and then they switch on autopilot. But then we have those that are entirely into automation that not, I mean, the first day they just switch on autopilot the first day they go live with automates as well. So there are, I think there are everything.
 
I mean, the extremes are in between those two everywhere in twin.
 
So when we, when we did the acquisition and we've never really talked about this, but like I I think it's interesting. So we we did a full sweep of the market and we've been talking for quite a while because we're one of the closest integration integrated partners. So so we we knew each other for years, but we had to do a full market sweep of what's out there. What are the guest feedbacks?
 
We did a lot of guest calls, customer calls where we just wanted to get the feedback. And you guys performed so well in this test. And honestly, our team fought so hard saying, no, Atomyze seems to be the one that everyone is getting behind. But also what was nice is that you aren't ancient old.
 
So that's really hard to lift it inside, an integrated solution with Muse because we obviously want products that feel and look and feel like Muse products so we can update the user interface, but also we can embed it inside the system. So you came out of that analysis incredibly well for us. But obviously, we need to move the products closer together because today, they are two separate products that are deeply integrated, and the integration works beautifully. But we have a vision of where we're moving towards.
 
What is something that excites you about, this kind of marriage?
 
One thing I'm excited for everything about this acquisition. It has so many angles, beneficial angles to it. But I think one thing is the embedding part overall from a user interface perspective that our clients will see in the future where Atmos will be embedded from a user interface perspective.
 
But what really entice me is the fact that when we are at that level as well, to really make use of data on a completely different level than no one else has seen. And what I'm thinking about, for instance, is the usability today already to, you know, do a dynamic, guest profiling. Imagine what I see in in the future here is that imagine having dynamic guest profiling pricing. So for instance, what you can see in the data that this segment, which is highly dynamic, has a tendency or probability of spending north of two hundred euros for instance, in my in the hotel, if they're going to spend, a night at your hotel, shouldn't they get a different price than the ones that we expect to only come into the hotel, sleep and leave in the morning, and they get a breakfast rate included?

Chapter
Dynamic guest profiling and pricing
 
Of course. So by making use of that data and see, I think that's the future where we will see that the possibilities are incredible, right? When you have the ability to merge this data and also make use of that in a completely different way that than a regular integration would allow.
 
Yeah. Yeah. Like I so one, one thing you started with was the embedded. So we're looking at Atomize and we're like, there's this incredible algorithm in the back end and we don't really wanna touch it.
 
We wanna improve it. But actually the front end, like, once you've got good API support on the back end, we can actually have that live inside where you do the rate management so that where all of the data comes in inside our BI tool inside Muse so that users never have to leave Muse again. Like that's my like dream kind of to have. And that's what on the embedded side that it sits natively with our native user interface, the interface that we've trained people on.
 
So that's, that's one of the, the one of the sites that I get excited about. The other part is this ecosystem that we're trying to build because we started as a point of a property management system. And then three years ago, we added the point of sale for the restaurants. The thing we did over the holidays was connecting the credit cards with the PMS.
 
If I go to the restaurant and I have a steak dinner and I just pay by Apple Pay, we can now connect the dots because we're like, well, that's the same credit card as Matthias Vela in the PMS. Let's merge these profiles.
 
And the thing I saw last week, which I'm sure I'm not allowed to talk about again, but I do it anyway because I don't really care, is that on the guest profile, we now have lifetime value or we're developing lifetime value. So we can show you how many times I've stayed and how much total revenue I have spent, not just room revenue, but total revenue. And suddenly, you know what my value is in relation to all of the other guests. And this is exactly what you're talking about. If I check into this or if I make a booking at this hotel, we should be offering me a better price because, you know, I'm I'm about to have that steak in that restaurant again. And that makes me really, really valuable.
 
Exactly.
 
Now, it comes down to, as Richard Walter always says as well, I mean, revenue beyond the rooms.
 
And that is sort of we already partially there, right? That there is so much more work to be done. But, but, but already now we are incorporating ancillary revenue streams into our algorithm to because that will estimated ancillary revenue should affect the price that we offer, rate to the market because it's not this. And, but it's just the starting point and will be so exciting from now and onwards what we, this acquisition will allow us to do based on what you just mentioned.
 
I'm very, intrigued by that, I have to say.
 
Watch this space.
 
Yes.
 
So, what's the practical advice you would give to someone who is considering a revenue management system? Because I always tell people, don't ever just look at one system. Like when you're buying a PMS, you should absolutely go out to market. But like, what would you recommend how to go about running an RFP? It's cold and often larger chains, but it's probably just a comparison, but what would your advice be?
 
I usually, to be very honest, RFPs, I think are a very obsolete way of assessing software today. I mean, considering the fact that we are entering an AI era where things needs to be automated. You expect AI agents to do operations even for you. If you could go out to, for instance, to do an RF, open up an RFP for an AI agent, what would you, what feature would you ask for?
 
Right? None, because there are none. Same thing for, for the, what we are building. I mean, I think the future will not RFPs are about to be obsolete because the reason for this is because they are asking for features.
 
Features will go away. Things will be automated. So, so I think that future of RFPs, if we start there, will be about what you will need to accomplish rather than what feature you are building you want to see. So what do you expect it to accomplish?
 
Can your software really accomplish this and this in different scenarios and so on? I think it will be more about that. And I think that, so my advice would be today, if we accept, if we take out the RFP part of it, is to actually start with that question. What do you want to accomplish?
 
And start from that end. And if you say, for instance, and that's usually the first question I ask when I talk to our tutors, why did you contact us?
 
And more so, what do you want to accomplish? And they say like, I want to increase revenue.
 
Maybe. Really? Okay.
 
That's not, so, so, you're not alone about that. I guess most of the tellers would love that, but more deeper in and usually it comes down to eventually that's it. Well, it would nice if it would save me time and so on. I would deep diving into this. Yeah.
 
So, but my advice would simply be that make sure that you understand what you want to achieve before you reach out. And then this question needs to be discussed with the different alternatives that you're looking at. If it's so with PMS, RMS software in general, I think that is a good foundation for a good discussion rather than talking about certain features.
 
I love that. And, I actually say the same thing often. Like, we want to know what the business objectives are of the hotel. And we do define those out often through conversation because often the hotels won't know.
 
But I'll ask lots of pointed questions saying, what's the growth you're looking to achieve next year? And then they say the number, and I'm like, great. So what are you doing differently next year than you are doing this year? And often, that's where you find the silences because they just think that there's increase of purchase power and that's what's driving the rates up, but that is a natural way.
 
So understanding what are the underlying assumptions in their plan and how are they achieving it is is often driving quite some interesting conversations. Yeah.
 
Exactly. Exactly.
 
Nice. I've really enjoyed this conversation. This is probably one of a few that we'll do because I actually also wanna show the system in what it can do today. And then as we start to develop it, take people on a journey with Muse Plathatomycin, really showing what the power of the ecosystem is Because I do genuinely think by bringing products really closely together, we can do things that are going beyond what this expectation of an integration is.
 
Because we have phenomenal integration partners that are also great revenue management systems on Muse. But I think the thing that makes this really special is that we get to work together on a roadmap that pushes the boundaries of what a traditional hotel is, which is just selling bedrooms to alternative spaces, to thinking about lifetime value of customers. And that's the stuff that I get really passionate about, but it does take some time to get there. But thank you for this first iteration of a, a chat, and then we'll see where this takes us in the future.
 
Thank you so much. Thank you.